fredag 13 mars 2015

Worlds Collide part 3 Camel Setups

As always you can find all setups here I have theorycrafted and suggested the different fits that City of Angels (CoA) might bring in a previous blog post and now it's time for Camel Empire. I have to admit that I am a bit scared for writing this blog post because unlike CoA Camel has brought a lot of ships that I haven't actually flown much making it my first time theorycrafting for them. Therefore I ask you to take some of my suggested fits and stuff with a grain of salt. I have for example never flown a Command ship for actual pvp on tq and I have barely pvped with Heavy interdictors (HIC) since their rebalance. But I have flown with people who use them and seen them used in AT/NEO teams I have been on so.

These are the seven setups that Camel choose to bring. Before we dig deeper into each setup I just want to give some general comments and feel about all the Camel setups.

My first thought is that all their setups feel very balanced and not one stands out as a super overpowered compared to all the others. This is different from CoA who have that dual Widow comp for example that just looks stronger then all the others. Knowing what setup to ban will be very hard because they are very balanced. I will look deeper into what variations of what setups might beat each other in my next and probably finishing blogpost for this subject.

Camel has also choose to bring some kind of logistics in every single comp. Something I really like is the use of the two logi frigs allowing the rest of the ships to be very high point value. Camel has also brought a lot of ewar and many two stage ewar comps with both damps and ecm that can either just straight up damp a guy out or use scan res scripted damps with a successful ecm cycle on a logi to knock a comp down.

Another thing that Camel has brought is links from command ships and they have many setups using them. Now links are not as strong as say in the AT with 12 people since you only have 5 here but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't bring them. I think this might be the biggest mistake that CoA did. Not bringing links in certain setups. Not to talk about the fact that command ships can actually provide a lot of damage (600+ dps) while having massive tanks and two links. So they are not useless dedicated link ships here no.

Another thing that I noticed was that due to the point system Camel choose to throw in a couple of HICs in two of their setups. Both the Broadsword and Phobos are actually decent pvp ships for this format being able to deal around 450 damage. A HIC also has insane tank making sure that a ship tackled by a HIC won't get away.

I think setup #4 is probably the strongest fielding a Command ship and a Broadswoard both ships with huge tanks and actually doing some decent damage. Looking into what links Camel might decide to bring is another important thing to consider. A shield resistance link with speed and sig reduction links for example will make a missile based setup unable to damage you. Other strong setups are #2 #3 and #6

It's hard to point out a weakest setup here but for me I think that #7 is the weakest one. It really only has one dps ship with the Absolution that's able to deal around 700 dps. The dps from the sentinel and Ishkur is not something that's going to do much when they are locked to t1 drones. I could see this setup ending up with the support wing dead and the absolution neutralized by either kiting or general ewar.

Setup #1

This is a interesting setup. It looks like a two stage ewar control setup that has a lot of flexibility with fittings. The dps is missile based and can be both HAM or Rapid lights depending on what they decide to do. Since the tournament will be played in the Proteus patch they will be able to have the buffed recons. This is extra good for the rook that gained the following changes:

The first change that will make a change is the 7.5% kinetic bonus opposed to a 5% HAM and HML rate of fire. While being more or less kinetic locked is never a good thing the change from a ham/hml bonus to a more general missile damage bonus means that the Rook can now fit and use rapid light missiles. This gives the rook work excellent as anti tackle and while rlmls come with a 35 second reload time it won't bother you that much when your target will be jammed for 40 seconds. The Rook also received a much needed power grid boost (thank me) allowing it to fit hams and a large shield extender without being forced to sacrifice a rig slot for a ancillary current router. The Rook also gained some much needed speed but it will still be really slow barely hitting 1500 m/s without any nanofibers. Something to note is that the Rook still only gets a range bonus to HAMs and HMLs and not Rapid lights. The other buffs it gained are pretty straight forward.

So moving onto potential fits for the Rook. As always with these type ships knowing what balance of tank midslots/ecm is hard and its going to end up being a personal preference. There is also the choice between running multi specs or racial jammers for it. I would probably run a mix of racial jammers seeing how they are better at jamming drones and have more range. 

This is the first setup I made for rapid lights. I went with a standard set of warriors but seeing how much control Camel have I wouldn't be surprised if they choose to run with logistics drones helping keep their logistics alive vs the tiny incoming dps. As you can see the Rook isn't toothless and can actually provide decent dps that's applied almost perfectly. Something to note here is that the RLML range isn't actually that great and the HAMs on the rook will be able to reach the same range as these. Just looking at this setup in general I would actually bet that they are going to run heavy assault missiles on most ships. I could be wrong though but it seems stronger seeing how much damage they will apply while keeping stuff under control. Here is a similar HAM fit.

While HAMs won't apply as good vs frigates they will deal more consistent damage and not have long reload down times. Same goes for the Caracals.

A standard Rapid light Caracal that they might bring could potentially look like this
This is pretty much a standard tq roaming fit with the warp disruptor swapped out for a extra damp allowing for some extra ewar to help the Celestis out. A kiting missile team with damps can and will probably work vs a lot of setups and we have seen them multiple times in tournaments. For a Ham Caracal there isn't much variation for the good fits. 

This is almost a standard pvp ham Caracal but I've replaced the warp disruptor with a Invul field since you don't need a warp disruptor in tournaments. The Invuln could easily be swapped into a ewar module if that's what Camel chooses to go with. 

The Celestis is what I feel might be the weakest ship in this setup. It's a t1 cruiser that's going to provide damp support. But it will almost certainly also be shield tanked. The Celestis lacks any damage bonus at all but its still able to field 5 medium drones and have 3 gun/missile slots. I think that Camel will probably continue with the missile theme here fitting the Celestis up with some token missile launchers. Or just skipping that and going with drone link augs for extended drone range. 

The number of damps you bring is really going to be important. It's really hard to get a decent shield tank going on a Celestis so I wouldn't be surprised to see some dual tank action going here with all those mid slots. Or they could even choose to skip the shield tank fully and just go all out damps. This ship is really straight forward at first but then you realize that there are a ton of different modifications that all come with their pros and cons. Do you want a sebo or not? How much tank do you want? What lowslots should I go with more tank, dps or speed? 

I feel like there are so many ways here it will be hard to predict a final fit but if I had to try it would probably be some super long range kitey version. Now this is probably not going to be anywhere close to what camel does because there are so many versions that can be made on this ship but whatever.

Setup #2

Another two stage ewar setup using missiles. What I really like with this setup is the heavy utility you get from every single ship here. Both Flycatchers can serve as anti tackle/tacklers and provide ewar at the same time. The Keres is the same and can damp down logis or even scram a dps ship. The Widow is the ship here with the most utility and damage here. The ship is basically a t2 scorpion that is able to deal damage at really far ranges with cruises. I am almost certain that this ship will be fit up with cruise missiles as a main weapon. Applying damage shouldn't be that hard with the help of your two Flycatchers. Flycatchers are almost exclusively a light missile ship and I think that's almost 100% what Camel are going to roll with here. 

Probably choosing to alternate one with web and one with a scram to be able to fully tackle something. The Flycatcher is a a really good anti tackle ship preforming somewhat similar to the old RLML Caracal giving really good support with its high number of midslots and projecting damage far away that applies very well.

Setup #3

Now this on the surface to every victim of a 0.0 Ishtar blob this just looks like another sentry comp. But there is a real possibility here that they will bring a more brawling oriented fleet with heavy drones, especially if you consider the Eos ship bonus.. In either case I will theorycraft and show some fits for both variations. Let's start with the Eos. This is a really important ship in this setup and it is able to bring links to the entire fleet and rock a 125 mbit bandwith allowing for a full flight of either Sentries or Heavy drones. The first choice Camel would have to make here is what links to bring and how many. I think that dropping a gun for a third link is something I would really do seeing how your major source of dps is going to be drones anyway. 

The Eos gets a link bonus to both Skirmish and Armored links letting it choose between the following 6 bonuses:

The first and most obvious link I would choose here seeing that I have logistics ships in my fleet would be the Passive defense link giving my entire fleet ~26% more armor resistance. The second one that I would choose that's really important to have is the Rapid deployment for skirmish giving my fleet 30% more speed. Speed is always very versitable and one of the best things to have in eve. Many fights are won depending on who can control the range. The last link is a bit more free of a choice depending on the setup in my opinion. They could either go with faster reps helping the logi or any of the remaining two skirmish. I would probably go with the less sig or more tackle range if I was going to catch someone and heavy drone them.

The nice thing with drone setup is that they have huge drone bays allowing for a very versitable combo of drones. The Eos also has a hybrid tracking bonus so I would fit rails to it allowing damage application while you move towards your target. The ship is absolutely not fast at all though. 

The next big ship in this setup is the Ishtar. Since they have armor logi I think it's safe to assume that this Ishtar will be armor fitted. This opens up a lot of the 5 midslots that the Ishtar has for some very interesting modules. Depending on if they are going with Heavy drones or Sentries there could be some big variations here. A heavy drone setup would most likely choose drone nav computers and some web and additional supportive ewar such as a damp or two. While a Sentry setup would go with more omni directional tracking links. Here is a potential heavy drone version of the Ishtar that could be used for Worlds Collide:

Setup #4

The first thing that strikes me here is a Minmatar rush setup for five people. Camel have been known for favoring a curse in their Minmatar rush setups for some extra utility and strong neuts + drones. The difference between the Sleipnir and the Eos here is that I wouldn't go with a 3x link on the sleip and instead opt for two links. Most likely shield resistance and speed or tackle range. Now we shouldn't take the weapon system on both the Sleipnir and broadsword for granted. They could also be arty fitted using the Curse for shutting down incoming tackle.

As you can see the Sleipnir is extremely tanky and provides a ton of dps to the field. It's not a ship you want to be shooting first or be tackled by because you are not going away. Same goes for the Broadsword if you get tackled by this you are not getting away easily. 

Just look at those stats to anyone who doubted the heavy interdictors pvp viability. One might say that Nulli Secunda really was ahead of their time with their broadswords in AT. And this ship only costs 11 point something worth comparing to a heavy assault cruiser at 12. Sometimes a single point allows for way different setups and more flexibility or upgrading a ship to a bigger version. And after the HIC rebalance where they got more combat capability and moved the resistance to a role bonus they really aren't that bad. I love the fact that Camel decided to bring out some HICs in their setups.

The ewar backbone and support ship in this fleet is the Curse. It's able to provide super strong neuts at a long range making sure no light tackle or bigger ships even will be able to screen off a sleip or hold a logi. The curse offers 37.8km medium energy neuts that are double as effective as neuts on other ships. But Neuts are not the only thing a Curse is able to bring to the table. The ship has bonused tracking disruptors that will shut down one or two ships and a full flight of medium drones with a damage bonus. The Curse is a ship with a incredible high skill cap. Knowing information such has how many cycles do you need to neut ship x, what scripts should I use in my tracking disruptors, am I managing my cap while running 5 super cap hungry neuts. All this while making sure you are positioned correctly and having a ton of buttons to click. It's not easy to fly this ship and I would actually rate it as one of the hardest ships to fly in eve at the moment. So much stuff can go wrong but you can also win so much with the neuts.

Obvious variations here is tracking disruptor vs invul field. 4 medium neuts vs 3 and the lows if you want more speed or more damage. All in all I would rate this as one of Camels strongest comps and I wouldn't be surprised if CoA decided to ban it.

Setup #5

At first glance this comp is just strange. A couple of really underused Gallente ships with two heretics and a t1 logistics ship why? But then I efted a bit and looked closer. It's not a fast setup but it is sure enough going to dish out some major pain. I predict that camel will favor rails for their superior range and being more flexible with dealing with longer range setups. But this is nothing certain! By using a speed link on the Astarte you can get the Phobos up to over 2k m/s heated allowing it to land heavy tackle while your Astarte move in and lay down the hammer. 

But let's focus on that this is going to somewhat kite but at the same time be really tanky. The Heretics support this theory by being a much better light missile ship then a rocket ship. 

Here is a couple of fits for what I think will they could be able to bring, Minor personal changes could be dropping a energized plate for a reactive hardener. Both these ships are insanely tanky and nothing you ever really want to primary but they do so much dps at the same time. And when supported by the Heretics I feel this could be a really strong fleet comp. I think this fleet lacks ewar though but who knows there might be some random supportive ewar on the heretics. 

That's variation one of this fleet comp. The second variation would be to fit blasters and using skirmish links on the Astarte and tackle with Heretics and the Phobos dishing out even more damage.

Setup #6

This setup is really strong. The dps and tank from double Confessors is highly flexible and able to take smaller ships town pretty easily and then move in on larger. Lasers mean that you can swap crystals instantly and you can go from 360 dps at 7km to 200 dps at 50km and all between. The Damnation got range bonuses to HAMs and HMLs so you can get decent range on it using heavy assault missiles. The ship like all other command ships is super tanky and doesn't even need many tank modules to still reach over 100k ehp. This setup seems a bit weak to being kited but a info linked Maulus will help.

One thing I wonder is why Camel choose the Damnation in this setup and the Absolution in the next setup. Having a beam Absolution here would make this setup a lot stronger. But I guess this makes it stronger against neut based setups since the entire setup would be dead otherwise.
Now this is a pretty standard HAM fit and like I said it's not very fast at all. I guess there could be a possibility that Camel chooses to go with HMLs instead. I know they don't got a very good reputation on TQ and I have to agree but against a target they know is unlinked with confessors capable of killing tackle a damnation can actually deal out decent dps with the HMLs. It would also make sense because dealing no damage because you cant get in range with your ham is worse then dealing some damage with HMLs. And to be fair the dps isn't that bad with HMLs supported by Info linked target painters.

The confessors are almost certainly 10MN ab beam fit with two random ewar modules in the mid. Beams are superior over pulses in almost all ways here. They have similar dps but way more flexible with range. Somethings to consider here is how much tank you want to bring and 10MN ab or 1MN MWD. Something like this would be hard to break with links and logistics: 

and something like this that's better at mitigating damage with a oversized prop mod and can take care of itself with a good pilot.

Something this setup will be really good at is going to be crushing ecm based setups. You could do the sensor integrity link combined with sharpshooter confessors and the damnation is already hard to jam so.

Setup #7

I actually think that this is their weakest setup. It's lacking damage and have a couple of very weak ships like the sentinel and blackbird. Even with damnation links the Ishkur should die pretty quick. I don't think that primaring the Guardian or Absolution would be a good idea as both are most likely ultra tanked. Most of the dps from this setup will come from the Absolution being able to deal around 500-900 with beams.

Something to keep in mind is that the Absolution has bonuses to information warfare links as well as armored. I think that there is a very good chance that we will see some super strong tds and jams in this setup. Using Armor resistance with the electronic superiority link. All in all. This looks like a pretty slow dpsing setup trying to control control control and making sure that no support ship gets tackled or die will be crucial. I don't think a ship like the absolution needs much tank and its probably better to fit more damage on it seeing how its more or less the only dps ship in this setup. 

This fit gets over 800 dps in close range and can project good enough I think.

Closing words

As I said in the start Camel has managed to create 7 setups without anyone sticking out super much as being either to weak or just way to strong. Banning against them will be hard and knowing what they theorycrafted is even harder. In general I feel like Camels setups are much stronger then the CoA setups. They are using a heavy amount of links, ewar and logi in almost all setups and especially ewar and logi are hard to deal with in a smaller match. I think CoA should look into banning #2, #4 or #6.

My next blog will probably be finished in a couple of days before I will be on place in Iceland cheering on Camel!


Inga kommentarer:

Skicka en kommentar